

thx to:http://forums.jolt.co.uk/archive/index.php/t-195173.html
here a copy of the page:

jolt.co.uk public forums > game forums > return to castle wolfenstein > Mapping / Mods / Skins > Mapping > MP Forum B1 (download + comments here)
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View Full Version : MP Forum B1 (download + comments here)
Gerbil
10-10-2003, 10:03 PM
http://www.pcgamemods.com/2471/
chavo one
10-10-2003, 10:58 PM
oops! This is in the mp_forum_b1 readme:
Place MML_CHURCH_ET_V1.PK3 in your Enemy Territory's ETMAIN/ directory.
Gerbil
10-10-2003, 11:04 PM
Oops, does it show where I nicked the README format from? :D
Banzai
12-10-2003, 2:06 AM
Downloading to have a look right now :)


Fantastic map Gerbil and team !

Some great textures incorporated and great design .

Water wheel brilliant.
Gerbil
12-10-2003, 8:48 PM
OI SCDS_reyalP, remember the FPS bloke in the forum thread on SD? What are your thoughts on this?

TBH I think he's bullshitting - just wanted to make people think I was incompetant regarding framerates after my rant against slow maps - I noted he's a fan of transmitter, so probably took it personally that I think it runs slower than a flick-book.

But on the 1% chance he's not actually a pre-pubescent 'trouble-maker', any thoughts on what might cause framerate issues 'outside'? Yeah I know it's too general, he's obviously full of cack.

On the downside, the file's at rtcwfiles.com, but dragonfly chose two of the most boring screenshots he could find - I wonder how much that'll affect the download rate? :( Much as I appreciate the effort RTCWFiles has gone to in the past, they've messed up my last few map hostings, so this was a bit of a bummer...
Gerbil
12-10-2003, 8:49 PM
Oh and I'll be running the map on our clanserver as often as I can (IE when none of the rest of the clan is looking ;)).

Uber1337.co.uk- GroundZero Public Server - 80.253.114.167:27960
ratty redemption
12-10-2003, 10:27 PM
Gerbil, even if there are some areas with low fr found in the mp_forum map, isn`t the point that you`d try n fix them, where some other mappers wouldn`t bother as they`d possibly moved onto newer projects?

its clear from your posts in the past that like me, you believe in quality and aren`t lazy in your work.

so even if some player or other mapper was trying to discredit you, if they point out bugs you guys weren`t previously aware of, in the end they are inadvertently helping you improve your work ;)
SCDS_reyalP
13-10-2003, 12:39 AM
Originally posted by Gerbil
OI SCDS_reyalP, remember the FPS bloke in the forum thread on SD? What are your thoughts on this?


I don't know. I get solid 76 FPS everywhere, on a athlon XP 1.4 with a 64meg GF2TI. OTOH, I have my settings turned way down so I stay over 30FPS on the official maps. 800x600x16.

I would prod him for something more specific before dismissing him completely.
*shrug*

I did find a couple more minor issues. Standing at the far end of dottys section, I get massive z-fighting on the stained glass window. You are free to say '16 bit is unsupported, so feck off' but it shouldn't be hard to make it stick out a bit more, or get rid of some the texture behind it.

Also this:
http://www.cyberonic.net/~gdevault/rfm/mapstuff/mp_forum/texprob-1.jpg

in my bit. Those used to be textures that seamlessly blended together. Now they are not. I suggest making it all one texture.
Gerbil
14-10-2003, 7:20 PM
Bugger bugger bugger - sorry about the 16bit stuff, I'll change my settings and go through the map and fix 'em all - the window is an easy one - decals here we come (I lurve decals at the moment!).

As for your section, I still need to get the sparkly fixes in for final, so I'll be sure to catch that too.

As for the guy complaining about FPS - no-one else has complained, and extra bitdepth / detail etc wouldn't make any difference since according to him the common feature is 'outside'. Well, the sky is by no means more complicated than any other (skybox + 1 cloud layer). I did recall reading that some cards didn't support certain blend modes well at all, but the one I'm using is yer bog standard alpha one.

Without more info I can't really say anything else on it - the fact he's not replied again kinda just makes me think he's bullshitting - certainly everyone after him has had nothing but glowing reports of the framerate, and indeed the map in general, although people get lost easily - which is kinda odd to me since it's a pretty basic grid-work pattern. Having said that of course, it has taken me over half a year to learn Chavo's bit properly, so maybe I shouldn't be too quick to judge, and I can still be left scratching me head in your (reyalP's) section on occasion too!
grizzlybear
14-10-2003, 9:15 PM
gggggggggggggrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

cant connect to the clan server

it sez it or me is running an incompatable version (press update if it appears on main menu)
ive got autoupdate on :(

is there any way i can revert back to the old version without a reinstall (gessing no)

or

are u updating the clan server soon ??

gonna rename an reinstall cant wait to play ;)

grrrrrrr

ignore the above

this is a misleading error msg aint it
gessing the server is down and thats y im getting the msg DOH!!!!

wanna play wanna play ;)
Gerbil
14-10-2003, 11:24 PM
The server is updated, and isn't running any mod that I'm aware of.

It sometimes swaps to RTCW for clan matches, but apart from that it's usually public (like now, except my crappy connection kept getting me kicked). Map / campaign voting is disabled, so I have to put me map on as ref, which I can only do in all fairness to the rest of the clan, when they aren't using it :(
Gerbil
16-10-2003, 1:10 AM
BTW we've made file of the week at www.rtcwfiles.com.
Helps a bit, and is basically a fringe-benefit of being hosted there :)

Without the servers of course, it's not going to help too much, but I'll keep swapping mine over as I can :D
chavo one
31-10-2003, 6:57 PM
Gerbil,
Did you see this post by rivrstyx? I don't know what he's talking about, but he claims that mp_forum messes up other maps.

http://www.forumplanet.com/planetwolfenstein/topic.asp?fid=6127&tid=1202194&p=2#12783470
Gerbil
31-10-2003, 8:35 PM
Yeah he PM'ed me via SD forums.
I've not had a chance to look into it yet, but will obviously do so before I release the final version (which will include the source).

He posted the shader that's getting screwed (as far as I'm aware it's only one), and it's just plain strange - it has nothing at all to do with anything in MP forum.

I'm going to have a peek at it very soon myself - I'd hate to think there's some shitty shader bug in ET to go along with all the other ones :/

FYI here's the shader:

textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3
{
qer_editorimage textures/evil_1floors/woodvfloor3.tga
surfaceparm woodsteps
{
map $lightmap
rgbGen identity
}
{
map textures/evil_1floors/woodvfloor3.tga
blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
rgbGen identity
}
}


And some piccies:

http://o2demos.hextroopers.com/hiroshima/res-tex-3.jpg

http://o2demos.hextroopers.com/hiroshima/res-tex-2.jpg

If anyone has any ideas, I'm all ears :D
ambershee
02-11-2003, 2:12 PM
That is rather odd, and from what I see in the piccies is a missing texture file, or a shader pointing to a misspelt or missing texture file. I really can't say more than that - cos I doubt it's what it seems to be.

How odd.
Detoeni
02-11-2003, 5:00 PM
That's a wolf shader, for ET it should be:

textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3
{
qer_editorimage textures/evil_1floors/woodvfloor3.tga
surfaceparm woodsteps
implicitMap textures/evil_1floors/woodvfloor3.tga
}

As to why its making an issue, mmm odd.

is "evil_1floors/woodvfloor3.tga" just in rivrstyx's map or is it from a custom texture pack?
Gerbil
13-11-2003, 5:20 PM
ARRGH back from 2 weeks without internet.
Downloading 1400 mails via 56k modem :/

Anyway - the shader should be fine, even in 'old' format - the only thing that's slightly dodgy (to me) is that the shader path is not in the correct (IE same) shader script - IE it appears under:

rivrstyx2 (from the shader name)

but is actually in a different file (can't remember off top of me head).

I seem to recall from RTCW there were sometimes issues with this - didn't ReyalP rather kindly sort out the old town_ shaders for RTCW precisely because of this issue?

Only test I've done so far was in a clean install of ET, and yep just res and forum cause this.
Next trick is to create my own minimal shader for the rivrstyx one and try doing some test maps to see what happens.

Not that I've even touched ET in about 3 weeks - deadlines eh? :(
SCDS_reyalP
13-11-2003, 10:50 PM
I seem to recall from RTCW there were sometimes issues with this - didn't ReyalP rather kindly sort out the old town_ shaders for RTCW precisely because of this issue?

I thought those issues were only in the tools.

That is very strange.

Could he have some common type shader of the same area, which is normally invisible, but is somehow broken by mp_forum ?

edit:
Oh, load up styx map and look at fs_referencedlist to see if the engine thinks it is getting anything out of mp_forum.

edit #2

done.
LOADING... graphics
LOADING... maps/resurrection.bsp
WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/evil_1woods/woodvfloor3.tga' in shader
'textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3'
Shader textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3 has a stage with no image
WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/evil_1woods/woodvfloor3.tga' in shader
'textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3'
Shader textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3 has a stage with no image
WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/evil_1woods/woodvfloor3.tga' in shader
'textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3'
Shader textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3 has a stage with no image
WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/evil_1woods/woodvfloor3.tga' in shader
'textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3'
Shader textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3 has a stage with no image
WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/evil_1woods/woodvfloor3.tga' in shader
'textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3'
Shader textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3 has a stage with no image
WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/evil_1woods/woodvfloor3.tga' in shader
'textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3'
Shader textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3 has a stage with no image
WARNING: R_FindImageFile could not find 'textures/evil_1woods/woodvfloor3.tga' in shader
'textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3'
Shader textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3 has a stage with no image
stitched 16 LoD cracks
...loaded 15549 faces, 623 meshes, 574 trisurfs, 0 flares 0 foliage
LOADING... entities
...
]\fs_re
fs_referencedList
fs_restrict =
]\fs_referencedList
Referenced PK3 Names: etmain/resurrection etmain/pak0 etmain/mp_bin
]\condump res.txt
Dumped console text to res.txt.


Yet removing mp_forum clears up the problem. So my guess is some kind of overflow when the game looks through mp_forum.pk3, which leaves things corrupt when it gets to resurrection.

q3map -info on mp_forum.bsp might tell us something.

edit #3:
One thing to look out for is paths which are too long. ISTR texture paths being limited to 64 chars or so.
SCDS_reyalP
13-11-2003, 11:15 PM
E:\temp>c:\wolfdev\gtkradiant-1.3\q3map2 -game et -info maps\mp_forum_b1.bsp
2.5.11
1 threads
Q3Map - v1.0r (c) 1999 Id Software Inc.
Q3Map (ydnar) - v2.5.11
GtkRadiant - v1.3.13 Nov 12 2003 16:00:32
A well-oiled toaster oven
VFS Init: ..//etmain/

---------------------------------
maps\mp_forum_b1.bsp
Abstracted BSP file components (*actual sizes may differ)
92 models 3680
216 shaders 15552
12684 brushes 152208
97742 brushsides 1172904 *
0 fogs 0
40488 planes 647808
346 entdata 36802

5161 nodes 185796
5254 leafs 252192
48484 leafsurfaces 193936
20659 leafbrushes 82636

27769 drawsurfaces 4109812 *
194924 drawverts 15593920 *
83226 drawindexes 332904

0 lightmaps 0
18447 lightgrid 553410 *
visibility 700936

total 14998804
14647 KB
14 MB
---------------------------------
1 seconds elapsed

E:\temp>

hmmmm.,
SCDS_reyalP
14-11-2003, 12:33 AM
mmm, btw, we can shorten all the texture and shader names by taking mp_forum off the front. They are already in their own directory, so textures/mp_forum/mp_forum_i_blah
can become
textures/mp_forum/i_blah
SCDS_reyalP
14-11-2003, 1:01 AM
OK, I found the problem. Styx has two copies of

textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3

in his shader.


textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3
{
qer_editorimage textures/evil_1floors/woodvfloor3.tga
surfaceparm woodsteps
{
map $lightmap
rgbGen identity
}
{
map textures/evil_1floors/woodvfloor3.tga
blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
rgbGen identity
}
}
...
textures/rivrstyx2/rivr_woodvfloor3
{
qer_editorimage textures/evil_1woods/woodvfloor3.tga
surfaceparm woodsteps
{
map $lightmap
rgbGen identity
}
{
map textures/evil_1woods/woodvfloor3.tga
blendFunc GL_DST_COLOR GL_ZERO
rgbGen identity
}
}




One of them refers to an image that exists, and the other one doesn't. Having other maps in there probably changes hashing, which causes one or the other to show up.

Glad I spent all morning figuring out *his* problem. mp_forum is fine.
Gerbil
14-11-2003, 1:19 AM
Originally posted by SCDS_reyalP
mmm, btw, we can shorten all the texture and shader names by taking mp_forum off the front. They are already in their own directory, so textures/mp_forum/mp_forum_i_blah
can become
textures/mp_forum/i_blah
I'll sort this for the final version.

So does Rivr know? I'll point him in the direction of this thread - we've exchanged a few PMs after I stumbled across the detpak mess on rtcwfiles :/
SCDS_reyalP
14-11-2003, 1:25 AM
I already PMed him.

edit:
BTW, we don't need to shorten the shader names, since that wasn't the cause of the problem. By my counting they were all under 64.
Gerbil
14-11-2003, 1:26 AM
OK sent him a PM, and also suggested he creates a mini patch PK3 for res that is simply the missing texture in the alternative shader - should sort the problem and it'd be tiny (probably 50k or so). Probably a good move cos if forum can cause it, so can can other maps.

BTW that dump of forum data you did, ReyalP, what's the 'hmmm' at the end for? I can't really read the info you show, so wondering if there's something I should be looking at for final + source release of forum?
SCDS_reyalP
14-11-2003, 1:32 AM
Originally posted by Gerbil
OK sent him a PM, and also suggested he creates a mini patch PK3 for res that is simply the missing texture in the alternative shader - should sort the problem and it'd be tiny (probably 50k or so). Probably a good move cos if forum can cause it, so can can other maps.

excellent idea

BTW that dump of forum data you did, ReyalP, what's the 'hmmm' at the end for? I can't really read the info you show, so wondering if there's something I should be looking at for final + source release of forum?
hmmm, as in "i don't see anything here, maybe someone else will" :P

Another thing I learned in this proces
fs_debug 1
will show you every file that is loaded, and which pk3 it came from. Since the output is rather large, you will want
logfile 1
with that, and then use a text editor with search on the logfile. This may help other people with strange 'conflicting maps' problems.
RivrStyx
14-11-2003, 1:56 AM
Hey all.. sorry bout that double shader. Texture madness when porting it over ..and missed that one obviously. This really sucks the big one.
I never saw that no image for shader when i was checking things. That fs_debug 1 ..will keep in mind.

Again ..sorry for the conflict... i'm such a noob :b
SCDS_reyalP
14-11-2003, 3:26 AM
Originally posted by RivrStyx

I never saw that no image for shader when i was checking things. That fs_debug 1 ..will keep in mind.

That is one of the strange things about this problem... It only shows up if the wrong shader gets used.

Here's a useful tools some motivated person could write... a map + pk3 validator.
- make sure required resources are included: tracemap, command maps, lightmaps etc
- check that all resources referenced in the bsp are either in the official .pk3s or the map .pk3
- check for dup shaders
- check that images in the shaders are in the .pk3
- list unrefrenced resources in the .pk3
- check filenames for sp ace s in na mes, \ that should be / FuNkYCaptialisAtions.
- verify namespace usage, eg textures and shaders all under textures/mapname etc.
Gerbil
14-11-2003, 10:50 AM
That's a cool idea for a program ReyalP, I may look into it.
Only problem for me is that the proggie I use is shit slow at parsing info (my logfile anyone? :( ) so it might end up as too slow to actually use - parsing the shader scripts might take ages.

*thinks*

I suppose I could hardcode the official shaders from the default PK3, and maybe issue updates for patches, which means the only shader file I'd have to parse is the actual PK3 one you are checking, which might work - other than that it's pretty simple really, so may have a go if I get the time (unlikely soon, it's 4.30 am here, just got up cos of the backlog of work from lack of internet access :D).
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